Lindsay Nahmiache is the co-founder and CEO of Jive PR + Digital, a public relations, social PR, and digital marketing agency that specializes in crafting stories that will resonate with its clients’ target audience.
Her background in communications includes six years of work with E! Entertainment in London, UK, and Contiloe Films in Mumbai, India. With over 17 years of international marketing experience, she stands out as someone who truly has the know-how to make any brand stand out. It’s no wonder why music licensing marketplace Songtradr has hired Lindsay as the Chief Marketing Officer.
Amongst many other achievements, Lindsay has been recognized as one of the 100 Most Powerful Women by Financial Post; Enterprising Women of the Year, Top 40 Under 40, and PROFIT: Top Female Entrepreneurs. She is also an ambassador to the UN for Women Entrepreneurship.
Lindsay is a true trailblazer and ambitious entrepreneur who continues to grow while inspiring others. There’s no doubt that this lady can do anything.
Thinking big vs. thinking small
When faced with the prospect of improving the business, real entrepreneurs do not shy away from dreaming big. They are not too proud to explore doomsday scenarios and think outside the box in order to find new developments – instead, they want more ambitious goals that will take their business into uncharted territories.
Lindsay believes that thinking bigger and thinking small is the same thing, but thinking small is just more work. She said, “If your ambitions are that you want to do something big and grow, my advice to my younger self would be, just think bigger earlier because it’s the same amount of work.”
It takes the same amount of effort to think big and to think small. So, how do we break out of these small habits and become greater at what we do? It ultimately starts with the goal of setting high standards for ourselves. Changing our mindset to be more open-minded will help us make the most out of this process.
The innovators of tomorrow are the ones who dare to break away from traditional thinking and create something new. It’s what we all need – people who are not afraid or ashamed to take risks.
Delegating as a weakness
I asked Lindsay what kept her from thinking bigger. If she had delegated or outsourced resources, would she have been able to do that? She responded, “I thought that nothing would work without me involved. I thought that I was required for everything to function and operate and it made me feel so needed. And that was a false belief, but it was one that I was in at the time.”
Letting go can sometimes be difficult, but if we accept the fact that some things are just too hard for one person to do alone then it will make those challenges seem less daunting. Delegate with care and attention, but don’t be afraid to give up some control. “Everything can be delegated and maybe it’s not going to be done as good as you want it to be done,” Lindsay said. At first, some team members might need more help than others and that’s okay.
She recognized the importance of hiring a business coach, which she also did for herself. “I feel like if you get mentors or coaches, you’re just getting your blind spots looked at more often,” she expressed. As the business world moves faster and becomes more competitive, it becomes harder to keep up with industry changes and innovations. With years of successful experience, business coaches can provide valuable insights to help you focus on larger and long-term goals. and improve your business in areas that you may have overlooked. So if you’re on the fence about hiring a coach, take it from Lindsay.
Influencer engagement at Jive PR + Digital
“We want to be able to tell the full story through all channels.”
The power of influencer marketing is undeniable. It’s no wonder that this strategy has proven so successful for many major brands and companies in the digital age. Jive PR + Digital provides you with detailed insights into how best to build, execute, manage, and report on successful campaigns leveraging influencers in your niche or industry verticals.
By bridging the communications versus just niche, they have been able to provide full service for their clients. While some people might consider them more specific than others due mainly to how narrow their focus has been thus far, Lindsay clarified, “We still consider ourselves a niche because we’re in the form of digital marketing and communications. But we’re not as niche as say one agency that just does SEO or just does PR.” Instead, clients can rely on them across all channels which is what sets them apart from other agencies that only offer certain services.
Jive specializes in Instagram followers, but right now they are also working with Youtube and Twitch influencers. Instead of working with clients with millions of followers who charge $5 million for a post, Jive works in the micro to nano space, wherein followers range from 5,000-7,000 for nano, and under 20,000 for micro.
“Our goal is that we don’t want one post. If we’re working with an influencer, they’re going to post three to five times over the course of five or six weeks or however long we have them contracted for, because then it’s more relevant for their platform,” Lindsay stated.
Catch my full conversation with Lindsay here.
Transcript from Podcast
[00:00:00] Lindsay Nahmiache: What do you want? Some people are very happy running a small profitable business, and don’t want to take a big, so that’s great then, you know what you know, and you stick to your day. However, if your ambitions are that you want to do something big and grow my advice to my younger self would be just think bigger earlier, because it’s the same amount of work, if not less, to think bigger.
[00:00:18] Natasha Miller: Welcome FASCINATING ENTREPRENEURS. How do people end up becoming an entrepreneur? How do they scale and grow their businesses? How do they plan for profit? Are they in it for life? Are they building to exit these and a myriad of other topics will be discuss to pull back the veil on the wizardry of successful and FASCINATING ENTREPRENEURS.
Hey, can you do me a favor while you’re listening to this podcast? Can you open a web browser and type in OfficialNatashaMiller.com? Yes, this is my brand new website that I built for you, entrepreneurs that want to scale and grow their businesses. It’s packed full of information, articles, blog posts, podcasts, and also you can download the free profit finder guide that helps you find more profit in your current business. You can get on the wait list for my digital course and be the first to know when my book relentless is up for pre-sale. Lindsay Nahmiache is recognized as one of the 100 most powerful women by the financial post.
She’s the co-founder of Drive PR and Digital and award winning public relations agency. And she’s the chief marketing officer of Songtradr Inc. The world’s largest B2B music licensing marketplace. We talk about her early work in Mumbai, her investment strategies, and what she would have done differently when starting a business. Now let’s get right into it.
[00:01:55] Lindsay Nahmiache: So I started Jive with a partner 12 years ago, bought my partner out five years ago, now four or five years ago. And then this year, one of our biggest clients, which is Songtradr purchased the agency. But allowed us to maintain complete separateness. And so we’re, we run our own clients and your own thing, and I still oversee that, but then I’m also the CMO of their Global Music Tech Company and the Agency Services, all of the brands that they own because they own multiple brands and they needed an agency formats.
So I have split personality, but I have an incredible team because the team straddles both. So I made. And make it work. And it’s interesting because it’s the same mindset as an agency where you’re working with multiple clients. So you’re used to being a little bit sporadic, but at the same thing with Songtradr.
So, so it’s just same, same. Are you working more or less? I’m working a lot more. That’s what I will say. So it’s, but –
[00:02:58] Natasha Miller: Isn’t the answer that I wanted to hear from you.
[00:03:01] Lindsay Nahmiache: I know. I know. However, it’s really interesting. The different set of challenges. The company has gone. It went from 40 employees when we started with them to 320, so extreme growth, a lot of mergers and acquisitions across the board.
So that’s a whole different set of, so I feel like I’m getting a different kind of MBA at the same time.
[00:03:25] Natasha Miller: You are, and is that informing and creating ideation for future endeavors?
[00:03:32] Lindsay Nahmiache: Everything in life is always formatting. I read us something I’m like, oh, that’s a great business idea. I guess I’m like, oh, this is what I should do next door, but I’ve figured out how to scratch that itch.
And I figured that out with the agency about three years ago is that I started investing in startups with financial investment and also just like sweating. Giving them ideas and all that in different verticals. So I constantly able to scratch it. So if I’m like, oh gosh, something in the metaverse space.
Well, guess what, I just happened to invest in a company that went into the metaphor space last year. And so I’ve been able to work on that edge for the last little while I’ve invested in a few companies in the psychedelics space and the med tech space. And so for me as an entrepreneurials and I’m like, oh, here’s the secret.
That’s how I can keep doing what I do every day, but also be able to scratch the itch of new ideas.
[00:04:22] Natasha Miller: Okay. Can we just all stop there for a moment? You do not have to start a business from scratch. You do not have to acquire a business. You can invest in a business either financially or sweat equity of consulting and such brilliance.
Oh my gosh. Of course you’re filling my brain right now. How are you finding those opportunities? And at what level, sort of what a minimum level do you have to both financially and sweat equity contribute to be part of that investment?
[00:04:55] Lindsay Nahmiache: So great question. So I’m part of like a small little fund, which is like-minded investors.
And through that we get different access to deal flow. And it depends if the fund does investments in it, or if individually people are like, “no, I’ll just do an individual investment versus fun.” There’s also so much people can do like there’s venture summits. So I think there’s one coming up in a few months.
There’s, you know, twice a year venture west does different summits online where you’re getting pitched from entrepreneurs. You know, angel, has a venture arm that you get access to different deals with. And then in terms of amount that you’re having to invest in, if you’re going in at the early stages. So seed an angel round, you don’t have to write huge checks, right?
That’s 5, 10, 15, 20 5,000. That’s a standard angel size check for an individual investor. Now it’s a lot riskier. So you have to really have faith in it because it hasn’t got product market fit yet. But I feel like as an entrepreneur, you can feel.
[00:05:50] Natasha Miller: Oh, they’re all gamblers too, with those checks written. When do you see if you’re going to see a return on investment?
Right? Cause some of them are going to fall flat and that is the roulette wheel. Right? When do you expect to see a return on your investment financially? I say financially, because I know that a lot of what I gain as an entrepreneur. It’s not what fills my cup necessarily being involved, being a part of the catalyst for some growth for somebody else’s endeavor is sometimes more important than the return on financial investment.
However, the question is when can you expect to see some of that return?
[00:06:32] Lindsay Nahmiache: So just to my experience, so my first angel investment was five years ago and they went through a series D round this past year. And I got asked if I wanted to so, but I didn’t cause I sold the business. So I’m like, no, I don’t want to take another capital gains hit this year.
And I’m glad I did it because their valuation went up a lot after the series D closed. But, so that’s an example that I could have taken off the table. So that was five years. Cause that was angel. I’ve invested in a couple later rounds, which are like series B or series C. And like the last one that I did, it was a series B was two years ago.
And I am going to get asked if I want to get out on the D round towards the end of this year. The later you invest the quicker you get out, but the smaller your returns, because obviously they have a higher valuation. But to your point before is a lot of these things. Yes. Obviously, finance, you always want to make your money back and all that, but it’s the networking and the relationships, like some of the people that I’ve met through this have gone on and brought me into other investments that might do well, that, that original one didn’t or just opening my eyes to a whole new industry that I had no idea about.
So, so, but yeah, finances always will.
[00:07:43] Natasha Miller: To me, this actually is making me feel a little bit drunk with opportunity because I hadn’t really considered that recently. It’s something that I thought, well, when I grow up, I’ll be able to consider that. So thank you for spelling that out and wow. And it’s so great that you’re diversifying because you’re now all over the place.
Do you write a check that you can afford to lose?
[00:08:09] Lindsay Nahmiache: Yeah, you have to do that. Especially at the angel stage, you have to sit there and say, but now in my mind, I’m like, I’m not going to lose this money. Like I’m not going to put it in something that I think is not going to go. I do a really strong entrepreneur check and I feel like as entrepreneurs.
There’s a different ability that we have, like, so would I just write a check to a fund that I didn’t control? The investments that they make now, maybe if it’s a big one, other getting access to deal flow that I couldn’t, but I’d rather write a check to something that I can verify myself, but yeah, you always have to be willing to lose it.
And if you’re not like me, my financial advisor tells me right now, though. He goes you’re way too, over exposed in angel investments. I know.
[00:08:52] Natasha Miller: Yeah, it’s intoxicating. Isn’t it. Okay. So we’re going to go way back. Are you ready to go with me? What was it like working in Mumbai?
[00:09:00] Lindsay Nahmiache: Oh gosh. Well, whereby that was wild.
That was the best and hardest thing I’ve ever done. I’d say. So I was living there by myself. Almost two years. And I mean, I got career growth that I would never get otherwise because I went into a Bollywood film production company. And because I come from London at that point and I’d had TV experience, they put me right up the ranks and I was in negotiating big deal.
Like I would never get that normally. So I got a huge career boost, but I was living in Mumbai as a single blonde female and it was.
[00:09:40] Natasha Miller: What year was that?
[00:09:42] Lindsay Nahmiache: That was in 2005 in 2006.
So what was your experience? What was the day-to-day like not only in business, but I want to know about, but just the lifestyle.
So, okay. So I’m going to give you like the full goods.
So amazing people. Like, I feel like I walked in there and I had a family right away. Like, especially like the people like the boss, the owner of the company, like brought me right into the fold of his family. Like his grandma was, I was there for family dinners and like, there was just such a warmth and also like you’re in the film industry. So you’re in like a higher echelon of society, which is just crazy in itself because there’s so much wealth there. So like the nightclubs, you would go to their like far rival than you might club in London, in New York, but then you would walk out and there would just be like poverty in the street.
However, like I say, just such love as well with that. So like I live in this one building and I walk out and there’s a street camp right in front of my building. I’d walk on every day and I would like, know the kids because there’d be the same. You just go. And, you know, he had like little treats and stuff like that.
And you, and there’s so much love. Really showed me a different side. It was also challenging parts. So I lived here, the film studios, which is not in Mumbai. It’s about two hours north and in town called Andretti. And at that time when I was there, it’s changed now, but really the only like blonde haired fair-skinned people were what I found out afterwards were prostitutes. So they had, there was a, quite a ring of Eastern European prostitutes that were coming and it was a business like it was, I learned the business, so I would constantly get approached and I didn’t quit. I remember, it was one time I was at, we were at some party with my boss and he comes up to me and he’s like, the guy’s asking.
“How much you are?” I was, cause they thought I’d be paid to be with me. And so we joked and I would like to negotiate my price with like, just to see like how that sounds so crude, the way I’m explaining it. But I was in my early twenties and back then, but it was just a really weird concept. So every time I’d be on the street, people would often think that that’s what I was.
And so it was interesting. And ironically, I ended up meeting a few of them. Prostitutes, or I’m not sure what the technical terms should be, but anyways, and had just like lovely conversations that gets just different form of business than we’re used to here in the Western world of how they did. And now, listen, it’s probably not the same.
This was like two decades ago. So, but I’m going to be real with you about my experience. I’m not saying it’s politically correct, but that’s what I went through.
[00:12:14] Natasha Miller: So how did you communicate? Was everything in English? Did you have a
translator? Yeah. So everything was in English. Like it was, most people spoke English, poor people.
[00:12:24] Lindsay Nahmiache: A lot of them just speak Hindi. And so I would have someone with me that would always be able to translate, but the cultural nuances is that the head wiggle it means”yes” and means “no”. So it means, so I had the hardest time with that and I just had such great people around me though, that just, I learned Hindi. So I was able to speak, I was able to get wherever I needed to go.
I’ll never forget. I came back to north America afterwards and I was in a taxi and the gentleman was talking to someone on the phone in Hindi, and I could understand the entire conversation speaking back
then. He was like,”woah! woah!”
[00:12:58] Natasha Miller: Well, I’m sure that was quite startling for him.
[00:13:04] Lindsay Nahmiache: And it was just, I mean, it’s such a great culture. It’s so warm and so open. So yeah, it was an interesting experience.
[00:13:11] Natasha Miller: I remember you telling me this a couple of years ago, you had a good friend that you met there and you were referencing her and ever since you told me about that. I wanted to know more. So thank you for answering the question.
[00:13:24] Lindsay Nahmiache: And you know what, one of my favorites, I’m not sure of who I was telling you about, but one of the girlfriends that I met there, who was also, she was from London and working some mystery as well.
She did upstate. And so she’s still there. We lived together for a little while there and she had married a great Indian guy. They’ve got kids and-
[00:13:39] Natasha Miller: I love it. They should have their own Bollywood films. I know. Right? Yeah. So I’d like to know today. What would you do differently if you were to start a new business?
Like knowing everything that you know, and think about maybe one, two or three things, because people listening. In addition to me, I’ve had my business for 20 years. I always find it fascinating to see, where they would have made that differentiation that would have really taken them further,
[00:14:11] Lindsay Nahmiache: Thinking bigger. So I feel that like thinking bigger and thinking small is the same thing, but actually thinking small is more work. And so I feel that I grow a successful business. I’m very happy. Like it was a British and secret lifestyle business, but sometimes feel that a lot of it was in small thinking versus bigger thinking.
Fortune of getting to work with an agency environment is you work with a lot of entrepreneurs. So I see, okay. I see the ones that are getting $5 billion valuations, or I see the ones that are just maintaining a little small profitable business and it has to be based on what your characters, like, what do you want?
Some people are very happy running a small profitable business, and don’t want to take a big hit. So that’s great. Then, you know what you know, and you stick to your day. However, if your ambitions are that you want to do something big and grow my advice to my younger self would be just think bigger earlier, because it’s the same amount of work.
If not less to think bigger.
[00:15:07] Natasha Miller: What was keeping you from thinking bigger? Did you have access to those bigger thoughts?
[00:15:12] Lindsay Nahmiache: Right, you know what? I was so busy in, I was like an accidental entrepreneur. I came back. From Mumbai and London and I couldn’t get a job. I tried to apply places and no one would hire me because I had no North American experience.
And so I ended up falling into contracting and then I get more contracts and, and then I just hired a few people. I met my business, so it was like, happened. And then I just got busy because I was in that agency services based business mentality, which is fantastic because it’s profitable and I owned it a hundred percent or with my partner until I bought her out.
So there was none of the stress of what people will have if they raise venture and stuff like that. But that was my path. And now I’m 39. So I hopefully have a few more paths, but that would be what I would, that’s my biggest one and I play.
[00:16:06] Natasha Miller: Could I translate that and ask you if this is correct. So back then, when you were busy, if you had delegated and pushed off a lot of, like, let’s say 80% of what you were doing to outsource resources or to other people that were good at that would you’ve been able to have that space to think bigger?
[00:16:26] Lindsay Nahmiache: Probably, but I was way too much to control free to do that. And that’s another problem is that I thought that nothing would work without me involved.
I thought that I was required for everything to function and operate and it made me feel so needed. And that was a false belief, but it was one that I was in at the time. And I didn’t have the tools to someone to tell me to take that space, because I do agree with you. Everything can be delegated and maybe it’s not going to be done as good as you want it to be done, but it’s the space and giving yourself, and also having mentors, like I had mentors at the beginning of my career, and then I kind of stopped for a while, but I feel like if you get mentors or coaches, you’re just getting your blind spots looked at more often and that’s advice as well that I just hired a new coach, actually.
[00:17:14] Natasha Miller: You did?. So, this is great to know. So you have created a very successful business. You’re going through an exit or have gone through an exit. You have a lot of things that, you know, from all the years that you’ve had a business, but you’ve hired a coach.
So this is wonderful to know. There’s no time really in your life where you don’t need a coach. What are you looking at working on right now in your life?
[00:17:39] Lindsay Nahmiache: Great question. So for me, its like the gym membership, right? Like if I don’t hire or if I don’t pay a gym membership somewhere that I know is hurting, I like can make every excuse to not work out.
So I figured I’m like if I’m paying a coach to help me level up, I’m going to make every excuse to bring something to the table to focus on. And I don’t know what every session is going to be about. I do know that I want someone who’s seen a lot of other people and CEOs and executives, to be able to look at me with just the ability that I’m able to have with startups and say, okay, I can invest in this.
I can help with that. I want someone who’s worked with other people at the top of their game to be able to give that to me. And
how do you, or how did you source and qualify this
code? I found this coach through a common community circles. So I was actually just recently at a retreat with a bunch of other entrepreneurs.
And she was one of the facilitators co-facilitators at the retreat with, I mean, it was run by a different group, but she was one of the ones brought in to do certain exercises and it just really resonated with her. And she works with, and coaches, CEOs, and executives and leaders. So because of that like-minded community, I just felt that that was the right choice for me.
[00:18:55] Natasha Miller: Right. I would say to listen to listeners. Finding a coach. It is just kind of like finding a best friend or a mate. You have to do some research, get to know them. And if it’s not working out, then you need to separate ties. I think some people stay with coaches because they don’t know that they’re or therapists by that.
What matter I’m thinking of myself therapists or people that are helping you shepherd you through life. If it’s not a fit, then it’s just not a fit, no big deal. And then just move on to perhaps another opportunity. What do you think is you don’t have to say the number one thing, but one or two things that you can attribute to the incredible success and sale then of Jive PR and Digital.
[00:19:41] Lindsay Nahmiache: I would say the fact that the agencies diversified so much over the years. Like we started off as a traditional PR agency. And then we quickly pivoted to social. So Virgin ended up being one of our first clients within the first year of business and we launched their social channels. And then when paid digital started.
We really got into the paid digital aspect. And then when influencers became a big thing, a few years ago, we got into the influencer marketing and because we’ve done that, we’ve been able to bridge the full communications versus just niche. And now I know there’s always that debate. Do you go niche or do you go wide?
We still consider ourselves a niche because we’re in the form of like digital marketing and communications, but we’re not as niche as say one agency that just does SEO or just as PR. We want it to be able to tell the full story through all channels.
[00:20:34] Natasha Miller: Are you doing traditional publicity as well?
[00:20:37] Lindsay Nahmiache: The traditional publicity as well, but that’s a big part of our business.
However, that is changing so much what we were able to place feature-wise, I’m not talking just listing placements cause that’s different, but feature-wise a few years ago versus what we can place. Now, it’s much more challenging because there’s just less media, but you can still do things with PR, but you just have to make it more of a social.
We call it social PR.
[00:21:01] Natasha Miller: Yes. Media and more access for everyone else. So it’s like these two worlds converging to make it just incredibly tough, right. For the traditional media. Can you give an example of how you work with influencers within Jive and then how you use influencers now?
[00:21:19] Lindsay Nahmiache: So, I mean, the influencer landscape has changed so much as well.
Over the last few years. So we’ll work with influencers. We tend to specialize in Instagram influencers at jive. However, right now we’re working with YouTube influencers. We’re working on a bunch of influencers, and then you just, it depends on what you’re trying to promote, where the type of influencer that you choose.
And also we’re not working with, and there’s nothing against it, but we’re not working with people who have millions and millions of followers and are charging $5 million for a post. Like we work more. The micro to nano space. And our goal is that we don’t want one post. Like if we’re working with an influencer, they’re going to post three to five times over the course of five or six weeks, or however long we have them contracted for, because then it’s more relevant for their audience.
[00:22:05] Natasha Miller: What is a nano or what are those levels of followers for influencers?
[00:22:10] Lindsay Nahmiache: Depends on what sector you’re looking at. But broadly speaking, I would say. Nano we’re looking at around like under 7,000, 5 to 7,000 and then micro word under a 20,000 followers. So that’s, it’s quite low levels, but they’re still charging a lot, but they’re able to get for us, we’re able to do more with budgets.
If we’re working with a client, that’s doing, they have a million dollar media spend, then we’re going to be working with influencers who are in the hundreds of thousands of followers, but you’re just going to be spending a lot more to engage them.
[00:22:41] Natasha Miller: And how do you make sure that those followers are legitimate?
I mean, I feel like I could tell. Just buy some of the names and the little characters I’m like, that’s not real.
[00:22:52] Lindsay Nahmiache: I mean, a lot we work with on a regular basis, so we know how they perform in certain industries, but there’s a lot of tools and software out there that will show you. Like, what if they’re giving you.
You can actually look through it and cut through it with certain tools, but a lot of times as well, they’ll give you case studies and references of campaigns they’ve worked on that are in your industry. And like the type of conversion rates that they’re getting, they don’t as much, we used to do this on performance-based.
So, you know, you get like a small fee and then you’d split the, like there’s so much money being thrown at them right now that that’s not happening anymore.
[00:23:25] Natasha Miller: It’s a really exciting endeavor. It’s not something that I’ve really participated in, but I have a book launch coming out in March and considering working with nano influencers, let’s just be real, not even going to try to get any of the big, huge names and I don’t know how it would work anyway.
Is there anything else that you wanted to share with everyone?
[00:23:47] Lindsay Nahmiache: My other advice is get a solid advisory board in place. You don’t have to pay them cash, but if you want to have certain like advisor shares as part of your cap table, even if you’re not taking venture, it gets people involved. Like I highly recommend getting people who are towards the end of their career as well, because I find that they just have so much time and attention to give and they open so many doors.
So that’s also if going back to your original question. I would have an advisory board. And so I work with some companies that have an advisory board of 20 people, but it’s not that they’re always having to meet. It’s just that they have this expertise to tap into, but you can start with an advisory board of three or four people.
It just people who are invested in you and want you to succeed. And then it feels good for them to be able to say that they’re an advisor to XYZ company as well.
[00:24:37] Natasha Miller: At what point in you, at Jive did you create an advisory board?
[00:24:42] Lindsay Nahmiache: I didn’t not pre the advisory board, so that would be my advice going back to myself would be to do it.
But I think for people like do it from the onset, right. Even if it’s just friends for the thing that you gotta be careful about how many, if you’re going to give like equity base points and stuff like that, but the sooner, the better and just have it in a sec renewable terms. So if they give 18 months and then you talk about, if you want to renew.
[00:25:06] Natasha Miller: Lindsay spoke about the importance of creating 10 advisory board sooner rather than later, explain the world of influencers and what she attributes to the success and sale of her business. For more information, go to the show notes where you’re listening to this podcast. I want to know more about me. Go to my website, OfficialNatashaMiller.com. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you loved the show. If you did, please subscribe also, if you haven’t done so yet, please leave a review where you’re listening to this podcast now. I’m Natasha Miller and you’ve been listening to FASCINATING ENTREPRENEURS.